Nelson A. Rockefeller |
May 29, 1964
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Nelson A. Rockefeller
Governor, New York; Republican Presidential Candidate; Philanthropist
Stuart Richardson Ward: This is Stuart Richardson Ward, and across the microphone from me sits the Honorable Nelson A. Rockefeller, governor of New York. Mr. Rockefeller spoke before the weekly general meeting of The Commonwealth Club of California here in the concert room of the Sheraton Palace Hotel in San Francisco. His topic was, "The Significance of California's Republican Primary." Governor Rockefeller, one of your first points related to the massive spending effort of the present administration in which they were supposed to get the economy moving, as you put it. How have they succeeded in your judgment, sir?
Nelson Rockefeller: Well, they've succeeded about as well as any other attempt in the long years of history, and that is very badly. I don't think that deficit spending is the answer to the stimulation of a free enterprise system. I think the only way to get a free enterprise system moving more rapidly, as was their promise, is to give the system encouragement. I think large deficit spending, building up the national debt, only discourages and does not encourage the growth rate of the system. And it also brings on the threat of inflation, which I think is the basic fear to all those who are retired, who are on Social Security, or other pension funds with fixed incomes. So I think that they have failed in this field of getting full employment in America.
Ward: Well, Governor Rockefeller, in this historic Sheraton Palace Hotel in which you're now speaking, there is a particular reason, as you may know, to be interested in civil rights problems and the issues connected with it. You touched upon them in your talk with The Commonwealth Club this noon, sir?
Rockefeller: Again, right on this subject, Mr. Ward, as I pointed out, the Democratic Party made a pledge during the campaign that they would make a first order of business the translation of their civil rights plan in their Democratic Party platform into law. It took two and a half years of massive demonstrations and human suffering all over this country before the administration acted to carry out their pledge and, even yet, they have not completed the action on this legislation.
If they had acted when they said they would three and a half years ago, in my opinion, we would have avoided a great deal of the present strife in America. The sooner they act, the better, but, of course, here is where that great split in the Democratic Party is between the Southern bloc and the Northern group.
Ward: They said that charity begins at home, and you touched on that, sir, with respect to the handling of certain problems, which you called local and state rather than federal. How would you handle some of these problems that deal with the socialization, or rather the social provision of the care for the poor and medical care and that sort of thing, sir?
Rockefeller: Well, there are two questions here, I think. One is that I believe very deeply that government close to the people is the best government. I'm opposed to the trend of the present Democratic administration towards the centralization of power and ever-growing federal bureaucracy that is bypassing the states and working with the local communities in trying to dominate the scene politically and the lives of individuals.
Secondly, as far as the question such as medical care is concerned, for senior citizens, I don't think this should be a matter of charity; I think it should be a matter of a sound, contributory system that everybody participates in during their working years and builds up the funds that are necessary to be able to have proper medical care after they retire.
Ward: Well, now, you well-noted, sir, I think, that there needs to go with the responsibilities certain powers, or a governmental unit cannot very well carry out its responsibilities, which might be added or retained by the local units. What would you see specifically as powers that should be retained by the local community, be it say, for example, a city or county, Governor?
Rockefeller: Well, I think this is a very important subject you're raising and I feel, as we did in New York during the past six years, that local government needs to be given by the state, which has the sovereign authority to do so, the powers necessary to work together. On local units: We've got these great metropolitan areas and, of course, you have them in so many parts of California where the population is spread out across individual governmental units of local government. Rather than have some big megalopolis central structure, we feel in New York that we should give the power to these local governments to work with each other, to contract for studies and to contract for services such as one unit running the police, another one the fire, water - whatever the different services are - in order to get greater efficiency and economy and yet preserve government close to the people.
Ward: What would you say as to the possibility of there being a system of federal tax credits for certain state and local taxes that are paid by individuals and corporations, sir?
Rockefeller: Well, if the local communities and the states are going to meet the growing demands with this tremendous increase in cost of education, the large increase in population, or the other services which the local communities and the states have to render, I have recommended that there be both tax credits from the federal government and a redistribution of some of the taxes themselves; that the federal government return to the states some of the taxing powers so that the states and the local communities will have a broader base of income to support the needs of their people.
Ward: Well, now one thing that is very much in the minds of our people here in California, because of our salubrious climate out here, Governor, of course, is the care of the old and particularly the medical care of the old. I'm sure that everyone would be very much interested on what you have to say on that, sir.
Rockefeller: Well, I studied this very carefully when I first became governor of New York because of the large sums, the increasing sums the state was sending to help senior citizens who didn't have the means to take care of themselves. We studied the possibility of doing it on a state basis and then came to the conclusion that this should be done on a national basis. I had been Undersecretary of Health, Education and Welfare and, as such, had worked with Social Security with President Eisenhower, on the plans to improve the benefits and increase the coverage.
It is my opinion - and I so recommended to the governors four years ago - that there should be a compulsory, contributory, national health insurance program for senior citizens, that it should be carried out through Social Security. But my difference with the administration program is very important in two areas. First, for those who have retired and would be eligible for benefits, under the plan, that if they had a private health insurance, they would be able to have an option to take cash instead of getting the benefits so they could pay the premiums on their own private plans, thus encouraging private health insurance, and that those who would get the benefits would not be handled by the federal government in a new tremendous bureaucracy but that they would be handled by the 50 states so as to prevent the possibility of socialization of medicine.
Ward: Governor Rockefeller, I'm reminded, for some reason, of a story of a friend of mine who was being given a double look over some four years after he filed his income tax return, looking for trouble in the income tax return. There were a number of items in there, in his expenditures, that were marked "DIK." He was not questioned on those items by the income tax people, and afterwards I asked him, "What did you mean by those items?" He said, "Damned if I know." And he got an okay and clearance from the income tax. I won't say what administration this was, sir.
Now, as to the continued reliance on deficit spending, on spending more than we take in in taxes, what would you propose as an answer or a remedy to that, Governor Rockefeller?
Rockefeller: Well, personally I am opposed to this approach. As a basic concept in the federal government, I believe in fiscal integrity in government. I believe that large deficits over a long period have a depressing effect on private enterprise, the free enterprise system. It retards investment and slows down employment and runs the risk of inflation.
My feeling is that the present administration or any administration, if a Republican administration comes in in January, as I sincerely believe and hope will be the case, that they should set the goal of balancing the budget by 1967, and that they can achieve this by holding the line at present levels of expenditure and then meeting high priority items within that structure. I think the tax cut will stimulate a more rapid rate of growth and that we should be then, by 1967, able to go forward, reduce our debt sum, and then make whatever other major important increases that may be necessary at that time.
Ward: You suggested, Governor, that in your opinion, our alliances have been weakened and freedom has been in retreat around the world. Perhaps some of us would be reminded of the headlines, 'State Department puzzled, worried; unexpected move by the Communists for so many years.' What would be the answer to that sort of situation if you agree to that as the existing situation, Governor?
Rockefeller: Well, I think it is. I think this is the area where the present administration has failed most dismally. My feeling is that we should have a clear foreign policy based on principle, not on political expediency. I think it's impossible to do this in terms of the 120 different foreign policies, which President Johnson says we have because we've got 120 different countries in the world. I think we need one strong, clear, foreign policy that will rally our allies, that will attract the neutral nations, and that will gain the respect of the communist world and those who would destroy both the concept of freedom and respect for human dignity.
Ward: Now, Governor Rockefeller, in daring to fight that monolithic enemy, would you have any specific suggestions as to methods which might take the aggressions into the hands of the United States and away from our number one enemy?
Rockefeller: I most definitely would. I think number one, that on all areas of negotiating between the free world and the communist world that, first, the free world should be united on their position; that we should reunite and develop common positions among free nations and our alliances. I think this is essential to prevent the communists from splitting us up and taking one on at a time and using them against the other.
I think that the free world should develop its own agenda for discussion and not always use the agenda prepared by the Communists. Then I think we ought to take the initiative to make a simple point: The Soviets have not paid up on some of their dues to the United Nations.
Ward: You refer to the expenditures in Central Africa, for example?
Rockefeller: That's right, exactly. And under the charter, in Article 19, a nation that doesn't pay its dues is to lose its vote. The United States, in my opinion, should long ago should have made a motion to make that clause effective as far as the Soviet are concerned and to cut them out from voting until they pay up.
I think until we begin treating the Soviets this way, with a realistic hard approach, that they're not going to respect us and that they're going to get away with everything they can. We've got to talk about the reunification, as they now have, of Germany, the right of self-determination of the only colonial areas left in the world, the Eastern European nations who have been enslaved by the Soviets. And I think we ought to talk about, say, taking down the Berlin Wall, taking the troops out of Cuba, stopping the war in South Vietnam. In other words, when they talk about relaxation of tensions, let's go to the points where the tensions are. In my opinion, most of the relaxation has been here in the United States and not in the Soviet Union.
Ward: Well, Governor, as we remember, during the early months of the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration, recognition was accorded to the Union of Socialist Republics. Would you favor the withdrawal of that recognition, sir?
Rockefeller: No, I disagree very strongly with Senator Goldwater, who suggested breaking relations with the Soviets. I think it would be very dangerous because, for the two great nuclear powers to be out of touch, I think would enhance the danger of nuclear war, and we can't afford to take any chances in that area. I think we should stay, preserve our recognition, but be more realistic and understanding in our approach in the handling of problems which exist between the East and the West.
Ward: And what would be your view as to the expenditures of so many billions for the race to the moon, as we call it, Governor?
Rockefeller: Well, I personally believe in the original policy established by President Eisenhower - that the space program, which he started, should be guided by scientific developments and that we should go in each field only as fast as science indicates and that we should not try and put a man on the moon before we have the information that's necessary to do so and we thus could save $2.5 billion a year, which could be used for other scientific development and research more useful to mankind in general.
Ward: Thank you very much, the Honorable Nelson A. Rockefeller, governor of New York and candidate for the Republican nomination for the presidency.
Generously funded by:
Tom Campbell
Dee Dee Myers